Oriental Rugs Today: Chapter 4 Part 4
Of all the rug-weaving countries in the world, Turkey may be the most fun for travelers looking to buy. Rugs and carpets have been made there for centuries, so travelers find rugs of all ages in the Turkish bazaars and a huge assortment of them from thousands of villages. Many Turkish rugs are great-looking, too. Often they have a genuine tribal character, rarely looking stamped-out or stiff. Futhermore, Turkish rug merchants are engaging people who can make the whole process of buying a rug fun, and they are perfectly capable of shipping rugs internationally.
Given these attractions, travelers often buy rugs abroad that they wouldn’t have bought had they had an opportunity to try a rug at home on an approval basis. Travelers get caught up in the local aesthetic and admire rugs in Turkey, for instance, that don’t look so good to them at home. Of course that is not the fault of Turkish merchants.
But there is a more sinister side to the story. Nearly all the folks who show us rugs they have brought back from Turkey have been lied to by Turkish merchants in some respect. Most have been given an exaggerated notion of a rug’s age. Very often they have been told that a rug was woven with natural dyes when, in fact, it was not. Lately we have seen a number of cases in which Turkish rug dealers have sold tourists cheap rugs from other countries and passed them off as Turkish. Also common is the fake silk scam (see below).
Worst of all, sometimes people are sold rugs in Turkey for far more than they are worth — sometimes thousands of dollars more — and usually a buyer in that case has little recourse.
Most often, though, travelers buy nice rugs in Turkey for a third less than they would pay in the United States. They have been lied to about age and so on, but because the experience was fun, they tend to forgive.
Our advice? Buy rugs in Turkey and elsewhere abroad just as you would gamble. That is, have fun — but don’t bet more than you can afford to lose.
American tourists often return from Turkey with Kaiseri rugs made in central Anatolia. Local rug merchants represent them as silk rugs. In fact, they are made with mercerized cotton, a poor imitation. I have examined pile fibers from many Kaiseris in microscopes without finding one that is really silk. Those who have purchased ’silk’ Kaiseris in Turkey, still in denial after hearing the bad news, sometimes produce receipts from Turkey that read, ‘Made from 100% pure art silk.’ Art silk? ‘Art’ turns out to be an abbreviation for ‘artificial’ (without the period). That is a refinement on the older version: 20 years ago, Kaiseri dealers told people they were made from ‘Turkish silk’, a euphemism for cotton. Before that it was called ‘German silk’. Having noted that, I should add that I have seen Kaiseris I like, cotton pile notwithstanding. Kaiseri weavers also make rugs with wool pile on a cotton foundation, though these are rarely imported into the U.S.
Elsewhere I have cautioned that Chinese and even Egyptian silk rugs are sometimes imported into Turkey and sold as Herekes, but I am hard pressed to tell you how you can be certain that you are buying a real one. I have read that all Herekes are Persian-knotted, and I have read that all but a very few are Turkish-knotted. The confusion is understandable: one must be blessed with extraordinary vision to even see knots this small. In my experience, most new Herekes are Turkish-knotted, and you can rest assured that a very fine, new, silk rug that is Turkish-knotted is neither a Chinese nor an Egyptian copy, since both kinds are Persian-knotted. Inscriptions (in Arabic script) are often woven into Herekes to identify them, but there are exceptions. Some Herekes are both very fine and uninscribed, so an inscription or lack of one is not a reliable guide to authenticity.
So how do you identify an honest rug dealer? I’m visiting Istanbul and expect hordes of dealers..how do you cull the list?
I’m sorry to say that it is quite impossible without word-of-mouth to know which dealers are “honest,” and even then you may get had. Our advice is to buy abroad only for the experience of it. Set a price you are willing to spend for a piece that may or not be what the merchant tells you it is. Buy the piece for the fun of it. Try online blogs which may give you clues to what others have seen and experienced. Remember that textiles purchased in other countries will look very different than they do here, given the geographic location. Good luck!
I live in Turkey. We have bought rugs both new and old from several different dealers in different cities. If you are a collector or very, very savvy about rugs, you can go to the rug dealers in New York and sometimes buy a fine rug or kilim cheaper than you will buy it here, but that requires a high level of expertise.
For the average buyer, I suggest you buy the Hali Rug Guide that has a list of suggested sellers in Istanbul. This guide is published by Hali, the foremost rug publication in the world. The Guide was published in 1997 but the suggested price of $300 / square meter for new production is still valid, in fact, it is possible to get new production as low as $200 / square meters as rug dealers are hurting. No buyers.
There is also a newer publication by Anthony Hazeldine, but it can only be ordered online through Hali (www.hali.com) and is quite expensive ($33).
Thanks, Carole! While we’ve seen plenty of shoppers burned in Istanbul, that doesn’t mean there aren’t deals to be had. And it’s not like people don’t get overcharged in this country.
For those of you considering buying rugs in Turkey, an authoritative guidebook would certainly be a sound investment. Here are more details about the books Carole mentioned:
Istanbul: The Hali Rug Guide $30 at Amazon, $14 at the Hali bookshop.
Turkey: The Rug Guide $42 Amazon, $33 Hali.
The Hali Bookshop prices include shipping, but to order the books you’ll need to print an order form and send it in. I imagine folks in a hurry will spring for the price-inflated but more convenient Amazon marketplace option.
i am in selcuk near kusadasi and have been floating between a few merchants i have eyed off a silk kaiseri and the dealer wants a price of 1300 u.s. is this a fair price in your opinon as it is not aged and the design is of the tree of life,
please advise.
one more point the carpet is the size of a prayer carpet i hope this helps you further
i stumbled upon this blog while searching for books on oriental carpets, and that led here. while i am no expert on rug buying in turkey, i’m not a novice either, and so can offer the following tips:
1. have knowledge, REAL knowledge, before you even attempt to buy, or even walk into a shop. once you demonstrate that you are not the average tourist, you won’t be treated like one. remember, these guys see a lot of dopes.
2. instead of bragging about what knowledge you have, or awkwardly trying to demonstrate it, try asking for the unusual. my personal request was for bags &etc. from fetiyhe area—this simple request raised a lot of eyebrows, and got me shown a boatload of very cool and affordable stuff [all bags, of course]. it immediately separated me from the herd, and also in one instance got me into the warehouse of one of the arasta bazaar dealers, where i was shown some astounding stuff—absolute museum pieces—and with certain knowledge i wouldn’t be able to buy. they were just tickled to show someone the REALLY good stuff.
3. in istanbul, i liked what i saw in the arasta bazaar best. selcuk has several dealers with good stuff, and we bought about $4Kusd from one. bergama also has several interesting dealers, as does kas [oddly enough—it’s quite a tourist trap otherwise]. all of these guys had junk, too. so, again, one needs to separate from the pack.
4. the best anatolian things from the best dealers will not be had at a bargain, and there will be little to no haggling. what are more negotiable are terms. anatolian stuff is pricey, now.
5. bargain hunters should look for non-anatolian [classic] stuff, especially kurdish and uzbek stuff [the uzbek things will mostly be non-rug, non-pile, but really terrific]. the dealers get this stuff from the east. not turkish, but some good deals [although we are finding some terrific stuff on ebay, already in the states]. the exceptions i know of for anatolian wares would be bags and new bergama carpets. the bags may be semi antique and older. the bergama carpets are made in great quantities it seems, and everyone has a few. look at a lot of them and you will soon see which are the ones to buy. they are new, but very serviceable, everyday carpets that are “honest” for the most part.
Some of that I agree with, Some I don’t. I don’t think you need to become that informed if you stick to a price you want to spend and buy what you like. The experience will be just as fun. Why not be the typical tourist? If you are a budding collector and are looking for something in particular then Tex is right, become informed.
Hi,
nice site. About the silk herekes: Most rugs sold as Herekes in turkey are chinese or egyptan reproductions (copies). And you are right about their (persian)knots. But the best copies (as always) come from china. Zhenping is one of the leading producers of double (turkish) knot silk rugs in hereke design. And turkey is the main export destination for Zhenping products. I know many rug dealers, who can not recognise these rugs as copies. I am a rug dealer in Germany, and we have the same problems with tourist bringing rugs to our shop they bought in turkey. I recommend to all buyers: Enjoy the trip to any oriental rug producing country. Spend a little money for a nice piece of oriental art. But if you seriously think of buying a good, valuable rug - better buy it at a well reputated dealer near your home.
I’m with you Ahmad.
I am in instanbul. is there any way a circa 1910 10×12ish caucasian soumak, very pretty, minor repairs, should cost $12,000?
Sure. Turn of the century piece with nice colors and an interesting design. could even be more if it’s the right piece. The question you have to ask yourself is… Is it the right piece? Carpet dealers have a bad reputation for a pretty good reason. my advice is buy what you like at a price you can afford discounting everything the carpet dealer is telling you.
You could send me a picture too. Best of luck Benjamin.
i am going to turkey very soon.whats are the things i should look for before i buy a rug or a carpet?how do i know its not fake?
Hi, I am in Istanbul. Saw this silk on silk carpet, about 80cmx50cm for USD740, 8×7 knots per square metre. The design is tree of life. I am not sure whether it’s a good price or am I being conned. The shop keeper said it’s made in Iznik and he did honestly tell me that it’s a chemical dye rather than natural dye.
the rug is from kayseri silk because there is no protucsion in iznic izmit could be but that mean hereke
it should be 10bye10 ,not 7bye8 it should be kayseri pricing is not possible without seing the rug also change dpend whom you deal
good luck
Hi, thanks for the reply. I bought the carpet. You are right, it’s made in Kayseri but the silk is produced in Brussa area according to the seller. He made me a final offer of USD430 which I thought is a good price. It’s 9×9 knots. I was wrong before, was very confused with all the numbers. It has been a very stressful experience, but I think the more shops we went to, the more we learnt about the carpets and the pricing. So, I think for anyone hoping to buy a carpet here, don’t rush, go to as many shops as you need to until you feel comfortable with the price. Also, don’t be pressured by the sellers, as a lot of them tend to turn very pushy after about an hour, trying to force you to buy something, it seems like a common tactic!
Bought a prayer rug at Matis in Kusadasi. 3′ x 5′ (1m x 1.4m) x ~3-4mm thick. Supposedly silk on silk with 625 kpsi. Looks all correct but is there a simple way to tell modified cotton from real silk? I do have a friend who speaks Farsi and Arabic and found it strange to see a possible Persian signature on the rug. Any thoughts?
Thank you all.
Josh-
Light your rug on fire- if it lights right up, it’s cotton, but if it “smolders” then it’s the real deal.
You’re welcome.
I’ve just returned from Istanbul, and I’ve got humped with a fake silk carpet. I did the burn test on the ends of the carpet, which seem to be real silk. After I returned home, and reading up the information about fake silk, I found out that mine is definitely fake. Damn it!
But anyway, the carpet looks nice, even though it’s not what it’s supposed to be! Should have read more, before I bought.
is it safer and simpler to stick to wool carpets
Purchasıng a rug ın Istanbul was an awesome experıence ,we bought a 9.2×12.5 oushak for $7.000- plus shıppıng fees..´
Sımılar rug ın medallıon rug store(palo alto,ca) was around 15,000- and ın mr smıths gallery was $12,500 ,my husband studıed rugs for many years,I purchased rugs ın u.s as well and my experıences told me buyıng a rug ın us ıs expensıve and ınsane .
Michelle,
I think the opposite is true for the layperson. It is my experience that people who buy rugs abroad often pay too much and are often sold carpets that are other than what is represented. I advise people to set a price before entering a carpet store abroad and sticking to that price. Buy what you like not because of what you are being told it is, but because you truly love it. Many carpet stores here in the states will negotiate on listed prices. These list prices may be double what you can actually buy the carpet for.
My parents went on a cruise to Istanbul. The cruise ship inventoried rugs bought by tourists as the tourist returned to the boat. Cruise ship collected their receipts so that they could get their “kick-back” from the rug dealer. here’s some advice, don’t go anywhere a cruise ship tells you to go for shopping. Everyone is in the tourism game for MONEY. Get off the beat and ask where to locals shop.
Hi my mom is currently in Istabul purchasing a rug made of camel hair. It is 4 x7 and is being offered to her at a price of about $440. Do you think this is a right amount to pay?
I am having a terrible timetrying to figure out what kind of rug I have Ivey-Selkirk wants to come look at it and that is after they have seen tons of very good pics. They are saying the market is not good right now, and I am afraid they are all ready preparing to rip me off! I have a label on the back of mine and I cannot figure out what country it is from and I believe this rug has already been catalouged. I have repeatedly asked them and they avoid the question can anyone help, I will send pics!
but I can only send pics through my email!
Hi
I am a rug dealer in Pittsburgh PA. I find it distriburing that so many people think that they will get a better deal in a Foreign country on rugs. Nothing is farther from the truth. Every rug in my store is hand selected by me for quality. The customer has an opportunity to take the rug home and see it in their light and for size. And most importantly, if there is a problem or dispute they can bring it back. I can’t tell you how many times I had to tell people that they threw away thousands of dollars by buying abroad. They are looking at rugs that cannot be sold in reputable stores in USA.
Yikes, is it true that there are government run stores in Turkey where the certificates of authenticty mean the rugs really are real even though the prices aren’t great? I hope so because I just bought a rug from one of these places in the Cappadocia/Kayseri area!
Many are are con-artists. hence, they build your CONfidence to trick and scam ignorant americans. The key is to educate yourself in all aspects of rugs before being lured into a time scam type of sales pitch. The more educated you are, the more difficult and dangerous you become to some of those scammers in Turkey. Ask tons of questions and look/analyze their response. then leave the store, to decipher what they said and verify info with an independent expert–you are spending thousands and do not want to buy something really much less. We would go to the local college in states before going to turkey and get advice on what to look for, what not to look for, and the tons of con-artistry that is prevalent in turkey.
Cruise ship “director” collecting receipts from the rug dealers for the kick-back. hah. That is not surprising. Many “tour” operators are there to help you part with your hard-earned monies. do NOT fall for it; most are fraudulent. These conartists (CONfidence-man, CONman) have honed their BS-ing skills for years and know how to act according to human behavior and dealing with uninformed, ignorant, or misinformed americans. shop where the locals shop, and ask loads of questions. do NOT fall for the overrpriced eateries, and the rip-off $3.00 soda cans.?!?! As in any country, do NOT shop in touristy areas; they are inhabited mostly by tourists in large caravans/buses who do not mind blowing tons of money on junk knick-knacks or severely overpaying on memento junk. Hold onto your wallet–travelling can leave you destitute if you are not savvy.
I have been reading some of these messages above and
very shocked with the comments have been made about the
rug business in Turkey ..also amazed with another fact
that how little people know about the rugs and the rug
dealers .. let me give you a piece of advice , from what
you are all focusing above , we need to finish MIT
SCHOOL of TECHNOLOGY just to buy a little cell phone
for your self ..there are rug dealers in the U.S.A
who have been going out of business in the last 30 years
but still trying to sell new persian rugs (they say
they are persian rugs)which no persian goods are allowed
to the U.S.A ,as an U.S. ambargo ..so if a turkish rug
dealer is a liar, no others are better then the turkish
ones ..and plus in TURKEY you know that you are getting
at least a real handmade rug which is the most important truth anyway ..
I wish all travellers have fun shopping for rugs in
Turkey ….
oscar
This has been very helpful information. I am leaving for Istanbul at the end of the week and have learned that many of the rugs that are being represented as Turkish are actually Indian reproductions of Turkish or Persian rugs. Very difficult to determine if authentic. The tightness and closeness of the knots which can be seen on the underside of the rug is one of the most important things to look at as well using a damp cloth to determine if it is natural dye. But at the end of the day, can you really tell whether the rug is authentic or not? I was also told that the girls who used to make the rugs in the rural areas, really don’t want to do it anymore and are becoming more educated and interested in other things. That may have been said as a ploy to raise the price of Turkish rugs and to make them more in demand. Are persian rugs finer in quality than Turkish? Thanks for your responses.
Oscar,
Let me first say that we here at Emmett Eiland’s, know many fair and honest Turkish rug dealers. We in no way want to appear to be casting aspersions on Turkish carpet dealers in general. That being said, many of the carpets that we see here in our store purchased abroad in Turkey are not what they were purported to be by the carpet dealer. I think the number is high because Turkey is really the only easily visited carpet producing country. It is also true that there are dishonest carpet dealers in every country. Unfortunately carpet dealers have a bad reputation for a very good reason.
As to Persian rugs in the U.S., I am happy to inform you that the embargo ended about nine years ago as President Clinton left office. Just to emphasize that point, here it is again THE EMBARGO HAS BEEN OVER FOR 9 YEARS.
As to your last point I hardly know how to respond. A dishonest rug dealer in any country is unacceptable. There is no lesser of any two lies. A lie is a lie.
I encourage people to buy rugs abroad and especially in Turkey. My guidelines are as follows.
1.Buy what you like because you like it, not because of what someone is telling you it is.
2. Spend no more than you can afford. If the carpet is too much money walk away. It is our job as carpet dealers to show rugs. Don’t be made to feel guilty for the amount of work it takes to do that.
3.There is no way for a layman to distinguish a natural dye from a synthetic one. We can all be fooled.
4. Carpets DO NOT make good investments in general.
Ellen,
I have seen many rugs purchased in Turkey as Turkish, turn out to be from somewhere else. It’s impossible for a laymen to tell the difference. Knot count is not a defining criteria for quality. I would take many village carpets over most city carpets any day. As stated above there is no way for you to tell definitively if a carpet is naturally dyed. A damp cloth will not work and should not be trusted as an example.
As to Persian versus Turkish rugs, there are good and bad from both country.
It is true that due to globalization there are fewer women willing to weave. I fear for the art in all rug producing countries.
Please refer to the guidelines in the last post for my recommendations on buying rugs abroad.
Hey, don’t knock buying carpets from dealers recommended by the cruise lines. While it is most likely true that they do get a kick-back, cruise line companies like Princess offer a guarantee that the merchandise you purchase from one of their recommended stores is authentic or you get your money back. Just a little FYI.
I have recently visited Istanbul and spent days looking at carpets all over the city. Most dealers inflate the prices dramatically. On average, the price being quoted initially is 6-10 times the market price. Of course, if you only shop in Istanbul, your idea of usual and customary “market price” will be severely skewed upward. I have also found that the dealers will misrepresent the source and “value” of the rugs to make a sale. Finally, the tour operators, the cruise ships, and the entire tourist industry is concentrated on fooling American, Japanese, and Arab tourists into overpaying for rugs and other “local” handicrafts.
I agree with Eiland’s guidelines. In my opinion, buy in the US, but maybe pick up a small “fun” rug in Istanbul for the experience of chatting it up with the rug merchants.
Richard ,
I could not agree more , perfect four rules to a
good rug buying experience ..thank you also for a
very valuable information about embargo ending
finally ..
but , there are two important facts when it comes
to handmade rug business ,the Turkish rugs and the
Persian rugs ..they are always the best in the world..
thank you for your kind respond ..
best wishes
oscar
I recently visited a very expensive shop in a three story building in the old city of Istanbul. It was not in the bazaar, but on the luxury shopping street. The rugs were new, the designs were original to the shop. They ran $130,000 for a 10′ x ‘12 silk with about 375 knots psi. The rug had “Dirsin” or Nirsin,” I couldn’t make out the name exactly, woven into one edge of the rug. Does anyone know the name of this shop?
I’ve just been delivered a lovely 5 x 7 rug I purchased aa few weeks ago at the Galata Jewel rug co-operative (somewhere between Kusadasi and Ephesus, Turkey). I agree with other writers that visiting rug merchantss, and then buying without having done a lot of previous research, was “quite the experience - a bit emotional and daunting at times”. But, frankly, doing it will forever resonate with me as a very interesting rememberance of this fascinating country.
As for the Galata folks, I live in Canada so my friedss and I had our rugs shipped. The delivery promise was within 6-8 weeks but it took just a little over 3 weeks. Yes, Galata was recommended by Princess Cruise Lines in their written materials to passengers, but neither Princess nor Galata had any way to know that we were with the cruise ship as we arrived there independent of Princess. Nor was there any of the collecting of receipts, etc. that some writers mention So I suggest folks take suggestions that Princess is taking “kickbacks”with a grain of salt. Anyway, who cares, if you buy something you love for what you feel is a fair price, and it is delivered in a fair and honest way, and Princess stands behind it - what’s to really complain about?
As background, Galata promised to deliver our rugs for the prices negotiated on-site with no extra charges for shipping, duty, or taxes to the buyers. I must admit that I and my carpet-buying friends were a tad nervous about whether this would really “come to pass” and didn’t feel at ease until our rugs arrived. However, this co-operative was true to its word about all these aspects. There were no extra charges, and our rugs arrived early, better than promised, and in perfect condition.
In addition, Galata provided us each a Certificate of Authenticity for our rugs - as a member of the Turkish Carpet Weavers Association. In those, they guaranteed that our pieces were 100% handmade - they did not say where the pieces originated (but that was not really an issue for us). They also detailed the kind (genre) of rugs we’d bought, the materials, the size, along with a serial number. These certificates were signed by 3 different people.
I love my carpet, and it came home reliably just as promised. I’m not sure if I negotiated the price as well as I might have, but that doesn’t matter as it’s lovely and whatever I paid supported the weaving artist to some extent. My question is whether the merchants that supply these seemingly “legal” authentications are a hoax or are they part of a Turkish government arrangement that keeps some of the vendors “honest” in order to protect an important local industry? If there are these more “legitimate” sources, it could be helpful to your readers to know about this. On the other hand, if I was “taken in” by the fancy paperwork, well I was “had” but still have a nice rug, a lovely cuppa tea and a good memory.
I bought mine in Cappadocia and have a written guarantee that should I ever want to return it (even in 10 years) I am welcome to do so. Email me for details at illini88@hotmail.com. I paid 2900 USD for a 6.5′ x 9.52′. My tour guide assured me one in season much like it sold for 4000 USD.
Matis is the name of the luxury shop in Istanbul near the Bazaar.
I brought a rug in Adana, Turkey around 1980-81 it is handmade and it a pictorial focused on a bridge and Mosque in Istanbul. Vivid blue and other colors. I was told something about this “rooster like character” on the edge means high quality. Any ideas on the character?
I own a Turkish Kayseri Silk rug measuring 18 X 12 and would like to trade it for a smaller size of the same rug perhaps a 10 X 14 or so. s that possible? It is a beautiful black, burgundy, pale blue with medallion.
my experience was very similar to GFRG’s. i received my rug 2 weeks ago (earlier than i expected) and in perfect condition. i, too, was on a cruise when i visited via a tour group. from the time i purchased until i received it, i was nervous if i was going to receive it, if i would still love it (we had a limited time to purchase our carpets), etc. but now that i have it, i love it! i will probably have it appraised at some point to see what it is worth, but it is one of the coolest “souvenirs” that i purchased on my 2 week long trip and something i will have forever. regardless of the price, it was a really great experience and memory.
i purchased a small silk rug for 700 dollars at Matis in Istanbul. I also bought the most unusual bracelet there. it looks like a crouching panther and is composed of marcasite inlayed in silver. i payed 1000 dollars for it.i feel i spent a lot of money there, perhaps i could have done better in the usa, but the experience of shopping in Turkey was a bucket list experience. wouldnot trade it for anyhting
Just started looking to buy.Browsed through a few stores in Australia (home), saw the $5000 rugs discounted down to $3000 then was offered further reductions as I left their shops.I end up buying 3 rugs off ebay at fraction of the price.Thats where you get the best value!
I remember a state run rug store and taking a rug I bought to them and they said it was great and the price ok. The people I bought the rug from gave me some papers I suppose authenticity. Thank you.
I have a Turkish Rug and I would like to know what it is worth. It says on the back 200X300 ? Not sure what to look for. Can someone help me?
I don’t want to sell it i just am wondering how to determine that. Thanks
Claudia,
Just send a photo to the E-mail above and we will take a look.
Hi Claudia,
200 x 300 may mean 200 lines per foot and 300 lines/foot.
200/12= 16.7 knots/inch; 300/12= 25 knots/inch; 16.7 x 25= 417 knots per square inch. However, ‘lines/foot’ usually refers to something made in China.
Claudia,
The numbers in the back represent the size of the rug. 200cm by 300cm, roughly 6′7″ x 9′10. Other than this information, the numbers in the back would not tell you anything. I hope this helps a little bit more.
just bought a silk rug 188cm x124cm from lions rugs and kilims art gallery istanbul address hudavendigar cad no6/a sirkeci-istanbul-turkiye has anyone any feedback on this shop.many thanks.
Picked up a rug from Gordes in Istanbul yesterday. Paid $4000,00 for it. Its a 9×11 Kazak wool rug on cotton. Has anyone ever sent a review on Gordes? Are they reputable store in Istanbul? Appreciate any feedback.
Watch out for the handsome young men fishing for customers around the cisterns. I had NO intention of buying a carpet but the conversation before we got there was so interesting and tea so good that nothing else really mattered. No doubt we were taken.
Hi,
my wife and I was in Turkey and bought a few carpets/rugs from Punto Rugs in Istanbul. Anyone here had any experience buying from them ?
Thanks
In June, I bought a nice runner rug (2.75′x10′) in Kusadasi, Turkey for what I thought was a fair price (and was assured that the rug was worth 3x the amount I paid for it back in the US), only to have the rug appraised back stateside for $500 *less* than I paid. ;-( Oh well, I still have the beautiful memories and I learned a lesson.
-V66
I was in turkey in february 2002. I bought a rug, a kilem, and a silk and wool. I sold my kilem and silk and wool. I got my money back on them. I cherish and would never sellmy 4 by 8 carpet. when I was in turkey at this time everything was very very cheap. The carpets were not though. The one point I want to make is that if you are traveling outside of Istanbul, buy your carpet there. Istanbul will be more expensive than other parts of the country. The Grand Bazaar is the most expensive. I bought my carpet in Urgup, in the center of turkey for $275. This carpet is worth $1000 easy here in new york. I would never ever sell this carpet as it is my only souveneer and I LOVE it. It looks very nice in my apartment. I highly recommend buying a turkish carpet while in turkey. It is a possesion you will keep forever.
V66Pony…A good rule of thumb is to give a bid of 1/3 the asking price if you think the asking price is reasonable. The turks like to yell and scream at you when bargaining for a rug. Thats part of their game. They wanted 800 for the carpet I bought. I said I will give you 250. He yelled at me are you crazy do you think I am an idiot. That is to cheap. I said okay how is $275 and he said okay.
That is the game they play. I have a beautiful and colorful yahilla carpet I bought in turkey in feb 2002. I paid 275 american dollars and love it. what is more important than the price you paid is how much you like it. If you overpaid but you love it thats what is important. I underpaid on two rugs I did not like and sold them for what I paid. I just want to get rid of two of them. The one I love i will keep forever. My 17 days I spent in Istanbul, Izmir, Capodoccia, and efes showed me the culture of bargaining and street hawking. It does not exist in the USA as much. The cabs will follow you down the road for a ride. The carpet seller will hide in the museum to try to sell you a carpet. Its part of their way of life. Bargain hard and next time dont be afraid to low ball a bid. they will bark but they will not bite!!!!!!
I purchased a rug at Galata Kusadasi Turkey. The origin was Bilcik. Was this rug made in Afganistan ?
You do sometimes find Afghan rugs sold as Turkish in Turkey. Without a photo it is impossible for us to tell.
I am currently in Gocek and have found a Sumak Rug 2.7 x 1.94 = 5.24m 80% silk on 20 % cotton. I have done some research and the pattern on the back looks pretty consistent, the rug has a waxy feel and no colour comes off when using a damp cloth. What price should I pay for this size rug and how do I know that this is real as opposed to some imitation made in China?
Juliet,
After chatting with an investor who was duped out of 10000 British pounds I would be very cautious with buying any carpet they say is silk. Most of the silk Herekes sold in turkey are fake, even with certificate of authenticity. The reproductions are made in china and look and feel identical to the hereke.
I was in turkey in february 2002 and bought a very colorful wool Yayhali 4X7 for $275 dollars. They wait for the suckers to buy the sllk. That is were they make their most money. TO BE SAFE, BUY A WOOL CARPET ONLY.
I have read for days on this and say your best and safest bet is to buy wool on wool. NEVER BUY SILK IN TURKEY. They are fake and very expensive. You will lose most of your money as the excellent reproductions made in china are hard to delineate from the Hereke. Only an expert can decide. Chinese silk are worth a fraction of a hereke and look the same!!!!!
BUY WOOL. BE SAFE AND CONFIDENT YOU WILL GET A REAL CARPET. OF COURSE THEY WILL LIE ABOUT THE AGE OF THE CARPET, BUT AT LEAST YOU KNOW ITS GENUINE TURKISH CARPET.
Google buying turkish carpets and click on Fake silk carpets.
The gentlemen who was lied to and lost 10000 British pounds name is Chris Abrams. Email him and he will also tell you why NEVER TO BUY SILK IN TURKEY. Just wool.
Juliet,
It is impossible to say without seeing the piece. I know of no Chinese productions doing silk Soumaks. The piece is probably Azerbaijani and is likely silk on a cotton foundation. Don’t pay more than $40 per square foot for a piece like this.
I am the person who was cheated out of £10,000 buying a so called “Hereke” silk carpet from Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy near Fethiye. Yes I was gullible but now I want to make sure that the genuine international dealers in Turkish carpets and the travellers to Turkey are not “ripped off”with a Chines copy in the same way.
This is the letter which I sent to the Turkish Director of Tourism in London,and which has generated no response. It would seem that the Turkish Government is assisting the sale of FAKE Turkish Carpets.
I am retaining the carpet in it’s pristine condition as it is my intention to continue with this growing campaign to embarrass the fraudulant activity, which in the UK would mean a jail sentence.
Kind regards
Chris Abram
Mr Irfan Onal
Director of Tourism
Turkish Culture and Tourism Office
4th Floor
29-30 St James’s Street,
London, SW1A 1HB
30th April 2010
“Hereke” carpet
Dear Mr Onal,
Further to my discussion with your assistant this afternoon.
On 22nd July 2003 I purchased a “Hereke” carpet at Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy which cost me £10,000. The receipts and sales invoice are attached.
I then had to wait some time for it to arrive and, when it did, it did not have a Certificate of Authenticity with it. I then spent some time contacting the sales office trying to get this certificate.
This made me rather suspicious and I asked London Auctioneers Bonhams and several other carpet experts to have a look at this “Hereke” carpet and they all said that it was not from Hereke. However at that time, one said they thought it was from Tabriz and the others said that this was a Chinese copy.
When I did eventually receive the Certificate of Authenticity on the 19th September 2003 I sent an email doubting the authenticity of this carpet to Mr Ali Ding, Production Manager. I received no satisfaction.
I then contacted Mr Kaan Kevser from Admana Ltd, London, and informed him that I was not getting any replies and that I wanted to return the carpet and get my £10,000 back. No response again and, as he was the person who I had paid the balance of over £6000 to and was supposed to be representing Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy, that I held him responsible.
I also contacted Mr Nick Wrightsman, Managing Director, Tapestry Holidays, with whom I had travelled several times, and I know he tried to resolve the problem. All to no avail as Kadikoy took no notice.
In 2006 I went over specifically to try and sort this out and took the Tapestry Holidays Representative with me to the factory. I was treated very politely by the Manager, I think his name was Mr Murat, and he promised me that it was genuine but that If I had any concerns he would arrange for it to be collected in England and my money returned. When I asked if I could bring the carpet back to Turkey he told me that I would be arrested if I tried to bring it through Customs. I am still waiting.
I have had it wrapped in it’s packaging, only unrolled once to be photographed, and stored in a humidity and temperature controlled vault as I wanted to pass this on as a family heirloom to my then children.
Recently I decided to sell this on ebay and I have had several very knowledgeable experts who have said that this is a Chinese copy. As they go into such detail as colour of the fringe thread, style of knot, colourings and many other fine details it bears out what my original experts said when I bought it.
“Cinar production is in Kayseri, not Hereke. Cinar are signed Cinar on top and buttom of the rug in latin letters - this rug is not signed Cinar. They look totally different in color and design. Check http://www.cinarhali.com.tr/english.html.
Again - from what I see from the pictures it is not turkish. Sheen, colors, surface and knotting looks like chinese 300l double knot Zhenping production. This certificate is not worth the paper it was written on - all chinese copies came with a certificate like this or equal. Zhenping makes one to one copies that are actually better in quality than many regular Hereke silk rugs.”
As I was in the tourism industry for several decades I appreciate how embarrassing this could be, “Turkey still selling fake Chinese carpetsl”, but I am quite prepared to contact every travel company in Europe, and of course to use my many contacts in the media, to publicise what is going on in Turkey if Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy do not sort this out to my satisfaction.
As this carpet is in an “as new condition” can you please try and resolve this matter amicably as no one in Turkey is interested. I would like my full £10,000 returned. Please note that the address I had at the time of purchase was 8 Thornbury Close, Rhiwbina, Cardiff, Wales but I am no longer living there.
Kind regards
R C Abram
Wife and I bought two rugs from Matis in Kusadasai two weeks ago. Both approx. 3 ft X 4ft. One is reportedly all silk and the other silk on cotton. Total price $8300. I’ve sent you and email with photos. Wondering if it is possible now to stop payment on Visa and back out of this deal. Anyone ever done that succesfully? Thanks.
I went to Cinar near Grand Bazaar at Istanbul. They have lots of high quality silk pictorial rugs. I also saw lots of Cinar silk rugs at this website http://www.sentez.com.tr Maybe you can get some idea out of it. They have Hereke Cinar and Ist. Cinar. What are the differences…..?
I saw the beautiful Noah’s Ark at the real shop, Cinar. and I saw that on the sentez website as well. The one shown at Cinar has sewn Cinar on top and bottom. The ones shown on Sentez has only one Cinar at the bottom only. Cinar told me the origin is Cinar but Sentez told me it is Hereke Cinar. Very confusing….
We just returned from a cruise that stopped in four Turkish ports (Istanbul, Antalya, Iskenderun and Kasudasi - sp?). In every port, we were approached by many ‘Turkish’ carpet dealers; the most persuasive approach being in Istanbul - In spite of the pressure, we decided that it just didn’t make sense to buy a rug in Turkey for $2000-$4800 — when we know nothing about rugs.
Having now reviewed this site, I see many of the ploys used to entice us — and am glad that we finally walked-away without a rug — Of course, later, we bought an expensive diamond in Kasudasi - and while I believe we got a good deal - we could easily have bought something else. My advise (for what it’s worth) — Enjoy your travels abroad, but, don’t shop with any less common sense and dilligence than you would excercise at home. At least at home, you have some recourse if you actually bought a “genuine, authentic fake” -
I have bought 4 rugs in Turkey in the Istanbul area and I know nothing about rugs. I just picked the ones I liked. I enjoyed drinking Chai which you will be offered at most rug stores and enjoyed talking with the rug dealers. I looked in the US to see what the cost would be here for a certain size rug and offered a little less than that when bartering with the rug dealer. I did not spend any more than $600.00 for the most expensive rug and $300.00 for the least expensive and all of the rugs I bought were made from wool. As long as I liked the pattern and the colors I really did not care where it was made and I am happy with my choices and can’t wait to go again and buy another carpet!
Marien,
Owning a carpet is like owning a piece of artwork. If you like it that is the most important thing. 9 years ago when I was in turkey I bought 3 pieces. I sold two of them and got my money back. The one I like the most I will keep forever. A turkish carpet that you love is like a swiss watch. You will never get tired of it and it will last forever. I think if you are a good bargainer and do your research, you can get a good deal in turkey although I found Istanbul more expensive than other parts of turkey. I bought my carpets in Urgup. Its good you bought wool. They are probably genuine turkish carpets. The counterfeit are found more with the silk herekes.
We decided to go to MATIS shop in Istanbul in one of our shore excursions, it was a HUGE mistake.
They completely mocked us with no shame whatsoever. We entered in the shop with no intention of buying anything, but the truth is that my husband and I were carried away by the beautiful carpets they showed us. After we had a look at them, they walked us in a seperate room, the sales man was very persistent and he was on about the silk beauty… about the opportunity of purchasing a silk rug…etc.
We ended up buying 2 carpets, one made out of wool + cotton (5X3 aprox) and the other one made out of silk (that’s what we were told)size (3.25X2 aprox) we weren’t expertises on the matter, so after dealing for several minutes with the sales man, we realy thought we were buying a bargain, we paid £1700 for both of them.
After a few weeks the carpets arrived at home, we were very excited, we inmediately checked the signature on the tag and then we spotted the word “mercerized” on the sik one… after reseaching online we found the meaning, we were and are very upset and we aso find this situation infuriating.
I’ve tried to contact them, first they asked me for the contract number,I inmediaty replied with the information needed, since then we haven’t received anything at all and worse than that is that my emails to them come back as a failure notice.
It’s truly unbeliavable, we thought that Matis was a serious company, keen on selling good quality products, but clearly is not the case.
Next year we are cruising again…and one of the cities we stop by is Istanbul. I will make sure we are in the excursion to go to Matis again, once there I will definately have my say in front of everyone else, perhaps they might think twice before fooling people again.
I’m also triying to find an online complaints service, so I can drop them a letter regarding this matter.
What is mercerized? If this is fake silk, can you claim back your money thru your credit card? This is Fraud….
Hello Sandy,
Thanks for your reply.
Mercerized: Mercerization is a process applied to cotton yarns or fabrics which gives to the cotton fiber a silk-like luster, a somewhat greater strength than that of ordinary cotton, and a greater affinity for dyes. Mercerized cotton is at the present time a direct competitor of silk in a great number of ways, both as an imitation and as a substitute.
It seems people are not successful when it comes to claim money for buying a fake carpet/rug. Every single day I’m still triying to get hold of them…
i’m in istanbul at the moment and almost bought a silk rug that i liked - really glad i decided to think on it and do some research first. thanks to everyone that contributed to this page. to be honest even if it is chinese, since i liked it, i wouldn’t mind buying it anyway if it was represented and priced as such.
matis looks like a disaster, they even post on the internet looking for chinese suppliera
I can’t believe how Matis can get away with it!!
Word mouth is one of the most poweful tools for building a successful company, I don’t think they are aware of this! and to be honest I don’t even think they care…
I would like to know what are Ozden carpets? Wool? Made in Turkey.
I bought a number of rugs from a dealer in Foca (Izmir) and brought them back to Edinburgh. No idea if they are what I was tld they were, but if I want to exchange them, the dealer is now visiting me in Scotland once a year! (Friends did exchange a rug recently). I do feel sometime s that I’m being haunted
Just had a customer come into the store for an appraisal of a carpet she purchased in Turkey. She paid $11,000 for the silk carpet at a cruise recommended establishment. I appraised the piece for $4500 but noted that the carpet was in fact defective. The weaver of the piece dyed the warps and wefts probably to help retain design continuity. The dye applied to the warp and weft was bleeding into the pile of the carpet. If one is buying a silk or ivory field finely knotted carpet it is always a good idea to check for these marks on the back of the piece.
The naïvete evident in some of these posts is as touching as it is disturbing. I would no sooner purchase something as specialized as a handmade rug without direct consultation and assistance from a seasoned expert than I would purchase a financial product without the expertise of an investment banker or a racehorse without hiring an equine appraiser.
It seems some of our traveling compatriots have a bit too much disposable income!
Kolya, If you have been to turkey you would understand how the continual bombardment and sales pitches from everyone including the people that work in your hotel will wear out anyone. I finally purchased a carpet near my hotel because I got tired of the carpet salesmen hawking me for the two weeks I was in Istanbul. They are relentless. So alot of these purchases are done because of persuasion and not necessarily because of logic or want.
I read most of the comments here and your experiences really made me sad about my country. Turkish government still does nothing to properly market the rich cultural heritage of Anatolia. There is hardly any control over the rug market. There is no governmental plan to develop geographical patents such as Ushak (Oushak) carpets, Hereke, Ghiordes, Sivas carpets and to protect these cultural values. Most of the carpet sellers just behave according to their short term earnings, and treat the tourists as a source of easy money, they sell Chinese products as Turkish carpets and just try to make money as much as possible. And the most pathetic part of this scene is no governmental body is controlling them, there is no legal regulations over the handmade carpet industry. Hence the real producers who live in Ushak, Hereke, Sivas, Milas suffer from this uncontrolled conditions as much as you foreign buyers. They still produce quality, hand made carpets but they hardly ever see any foreign buyers, and they usually have to sell their carpets to Turkish dealers with relatively low prices.
I think nearly 30% of the carpets are Chinese products in Istanbul. If you are an expert buy from a dealer from Istanbul, otherwise you can buy fake carpets easily. I think it is much safer to buy from a reliable seller in your home country. Or buy from the small towns in Turkey where the carpets are produced.
Zubeyde,
Well said!
I am deployed in Kuwait. They sell rugs in the PX here. They have hand made silk ones for $4200. I have always wanted one. I have no idea if that is a good deal or what to look for. Any advice?
John,
Don’t do it.
I was totally and completely defrauded by a couple of Turkish rug salesmen. I spent some time in Turkey and would have never believed that i could have been lied to so bad. I purchased for a huge price a rug that was represented as silk and it turned out to be cotton. These guys were from New Jersey, originally from Turkey.
We purchased 2 rugs from Mezat Rugs Gallery Carpets and Kilms. AT the Grand Bazaar.
We were truly conned - paid way to much for our rugs - but we love them so I guess that is a concession. We paid $6000 for a large wool rug, and a small antique (?) rug.
They actually scammed us big time. These guys in particular targeted Australians as they had scouts around the bazaar and when they heard an aussie accent they roped you in.
The owner Ali and his daughter Rana - from Australia. Originally from Turkey - moved to Sydney then back to Turkey to make the big bucks scamming Aussies. So beware - don’t believe the little spiel they give you about getting the tax money back - it doesn’t happen. They told us that we were getting $30000 worth of rugs for $6000. As I said we love our rugs but their sales technique was a little off putting.
Know what you want to pay - I am sure they will find you what you want - if you stick to your price.
Amen Aussie! If it seems too goo to be true….
Just returned from Istanbul last Sunday. We purchased an 8X 10 wool rug from Matis outside the grand bazaar. paid 7600.00 after salesman starting off with price of 14,000.Went on a tour and were taken to matis from our bus. had to sit through a very interesting presentation of how turkish rugs were made and shown some beautiful carpets. after presentation we stayed. Flet like we should purchased a turkish rug in turkey and it would be something we would always cherish from our trip. Am sure hoping we get a nice rug.Just visited the matis website to try and view their rugs. Can’t remember what region our rug was supposedly made in. We were promised it would arrive before 6 weeks time. Will take a picture and e-mail once we receive it. It sounds like we will be stuck no matter what so my hope is we love the rug and enjoyed our stay iin Turkey and will keep the experience with us but will also be more cautious if we ever decide to purchase something this expensive in another country. Lynda
You may find both honest and dishonest rug dealers in istanbul. Yes, lately they are selling Chinese fake silk rugs in Turkey but there are still a lot of Turkish pure silk Kayseri and Hereke rugs in Turkey. One should never go shopping with a tour guide because they take a 30% commission.
what would be the retail price i should pay for a Turkish pure silk kayseri or hereke hand made rug per metre square?
ANOTHER Aussie conned by Mezat rug at the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul. Ali and Daughter Clare conned me to direct deposit $8000 into their Sydney bank account but 9 months later I STILL have not received the Rug. Fraud and fraudulent misrepresentation, lies and promises. I will pursue this to my utmost.
We recently visited Istanbul, bought a lovely rug from Matis who promised a 4 - 6 week delivery. Cost of delivery was included in the price we paid. To our surprise, exactly one week after our return to Cape Town, our beautiful rug was delivered to our door - sent via DHL by air mail. Our experience in dealing with Matis was superb. We hope to enjoy our rug for many years to come.
Right, I have written before about my personal experience at Matis.
This is something I found online
http://www.made-in-china.com/traderoom/sevancirak
Look at the website’s name.
How frustrating is that?
In a carpet co operative near a place in Turkey called Pamukale, We bought a pure silk on silk, hereke cinar tapestry which was 50cm x 66cm, 10 x 10 turkish knots p/cm2, (cert of auth included) it took one year to make and it’s a beautiful design of Jesus and his disciples at the last supper. He first offered £6000 and we got him down to £3900. Did we get a good deal?
Steve,
As I said in my email, you rarely get good deals in Turkey. There is a psychology to carpet selling and it goes something like this. The carpet dealer buys a carpet from a weaver or distributor for x amount of money. To make it clearer we’ll just say that the price was $500. The dealer can set the price at whatever he chooses. In most places the dealer will inflate the price of the carpet to make room for negotiation. Here we will say that the carpet dealer puts a price of $5000 on the piece. To make a profit and pay the overhead we will say that the dealer needs to make $1500 on the piece. Anything between $5000 and $1500 is pure gravy. Some people will talk the dealer down to $4000, some $2000, and a few to $1500. The sad truth is that many probably pay the full price. It seems to me for the customer it’s all related to winning or getting the upper hand. For the dealer it’s just an act. The strangest part is that it’s been going on for thousands of years and people still walk away feeling like they won the battle, when in fact they just played the part. To me, working in a company that has an across the board mark up, and a no negotiation policy, it seems a bit unseemly. To most it’s just part of the business. Recently I heard about a dealer in my area that sold a carpet for $20,000 that should have retailed for $5000. The customer walked away happy because he talked the dealer down to $20,000 from $28,000. Does the customer’s happiness excuse the dealer’s wind fall. I think not.
we brought a carpet from merzat grand bazaar .silk ? about 5/5/11 and now reading the above posts are wondering whether we will ever see it !!! we have there card and now realise they dont have a website and only a g mail adfdress oh dear very odd for company so looks like we have done our money thanks to all posts just a leason learnt at least we have a photo of our supposedly purchased carpet !!!
I have just returned from Turkey (Izmir) and bought two rugs from a company called The HALI village carpets and Kilims (www.thehali.net) I bought one that was wool (natural wool colors) Black, white and shades in between and one silk. The sizes are 286X196 for the silk identified as a Kayseri. The Wool rug is 303X205. I have pictures of the rugs but don’t see a way to attach the photos. Have you heard anything bad about this company and could you give me your opinion on my purchase. I paid $2,250 and $15,000.
Ok I have read all the stories, and would like to add my bit. I bought rugs from Mezat Rugs in the Grand Bazaar, I KNOW I paid a good price, and I DIDN”T have to get a refund with tax as I didn’t pay any. I bought them at the start of my trip on the 4th May 2011 and they arrived at my home today 1st June 2011.Besides that I also had my own personal guide, thanks to them around the Bazaar which was a great help. The experience was amazing to say the least. By the way India also do good rugs, why hasn’t anyone mentioned them?!
I recently returned from an amazing two week trip to Turkey. I have always wanted a Turkish rug, preferably neutral colors but since I live in an apartment, 5×7 was a tad too large but 4×6 was perfect so I aimed for that size. I visited a manufacturer in Cappadocia. Took the tour first of the women weaving the rugs, then a presentation of how they collect silk then a presentation in a larger room with rugs galore. I fell in love with a neutral 4×6 wool on cotton. Original asking price was $2k for rugs in that size and material. Once I said no to 2k, he asked for $1650 for the one I wanted and after an hour of negotiating and even walking away we settled on an even $1000 including shipping etc. I put one payment and still owe 2 more. I get a feeling and I even knew at the time that I was paying too much for it but it is beautiful and I do love it. Do you think that was fair or over paid and by how much? Since I’m still making payments what could I do? I have the rug now (with my signature on the back label) in my home plus a certificate.
Elizabeth, I was in turkey 9.5 years ago when rugs were reasonably priced. I bought a 3.5 by 7 wool on cotton yahyali in cappadocia for $275. I was at ABC carpets in New york City last month looking at carpets.
The price of carpets has skyrocketed in the last 5 or 10 years. I think it is because of the internet and globalizaton. These turkish women no longer want to work for $1 a day. I was told and I believe my carpet took 4 months to weave. So it cost the seller about $120 and he sold for $275. Now I think these women are commanding higher wages and that will raise the cost of purchasing the rug for the dealer who then passes the cost on to the customer.
My carpet type and size at ABC carpet now sells for $1400 after negotiating. You may have overpaid for your carpet but it sounds like with the way prices are these days it may actually be what it’s worth. If you like it, thats the main thing.
Thanks Jim!
It really is an incredible art. I believe the place was Carpetium in Cappadocia. I sat with a woman while she was working (room of about 8 ladies) and honestly I can understand the cost they command these days if indeed all the rugs there were hand made by these women. The boss (while negotiating) told me my carpet cost $750 for them to make…if that were true. I couldn’t get him in the $900’s and I was exhausted after the first hour of negotiating. It really is a treasure, soft and luxurious and looks so wonderful in my home. I remember while negotiating he was showing me rugs of lesser quality and design that fit my budget (500-800) but the one I bought was far superior. I am happy and the country is fantastic can’t wait to revisit.
Elizabeth,
Turkey is an amazing place to be a tourist. I was there in January/February 2002 and remember the trip like it was yesterday. I was in Istanbul, Efes, Cappadocia, and Izmir. I was there for 17 days and should have stayed there the whole 30 days I was away. Berlin and Copenhagen in the winter is not that interesting. Turkey in the winter is very interesting.
One of my few possesions I have kept long term is my turkish yahyali rug. The quality is excellent, the pattern is excellent and I will keep this rug forever. It is in the center of my apartment and I love it. It still looks brand new after almost 10 years and I walk on it all the time.
I purchased my carpet in cappadocia also, but I dont remember the name of the shop. There were 3 salesmen working with me. Since this was just after 9/11 very few American tourist were in turkey so I had bargaining power. Also their economy had collapsed at that time. Everything was very cheap. Most hotels were from $2 dollars to $10 dollars a night. I paid $10 and had breakfast served at my door with cable and internet. I stayed at the Hotel sultanhamet in Istanbul and my hotel overlooked the Blue Mosque. Now that Hotel is about $100 a night or more. I was entertaining the idea of revisiting turkey last year but decided not to go.
forever. It reminds me of my trip and is in the center of my studio.
I hope you keep your carpet forever. The price you payed sounds about what they are selling for now. Check some of the website prices of shops in turkey. That will also give you an idea of what is out there and prices.
Anyway, If you can, please email a picture of your carpet and if you have any pictures of turkey I would love to see them.
Thanks, Jim
My email is jerseyjm@gmail.com
I have just come back from Turkey with a 30 years old wool carpet (106cm*160cm). The price is around 300 USD. Based on the comments from all other carpet dealers, it is a great bargain. I like it very much. My suggestion to you is:
(1) (you can go but) do not buy carpets from the dealers who hire people to work for them on the street.
(2) Ask them if their silk carpets are chemical dye or nature dye. If they say nature dye, you can leave (almost surely).
(3) Go to at least 3~5 carpet shops, and I suggest including the following one: Gallery Ottoman, Arasta Bazaar, NO.139, Sultanahmet, Istanbul. The boss, Fahrettin, is a honest guy. They do not have too many selections, since they try to be out of the business. However, if you are lucky enough to find one you like, you may buy a carpet which everyone tells you a good deal.
Any suggestions on how to select wool rug. How many stitches? What is the prioce per square foot/ meter? Any useful other things to note or ask? Thanks
What has suprised me so much is that people who have absolutely no knowledge of the mediterranian culture or the art produced can speak so badly of the people who try to teach you….
İn every type sales department wherever in the world it is,they must make profit .
some have no concience and do make huge amounts of profit whilst some are more humble and just try to spread the art of a dying culture your judgement of character should allow you to feel wheither the person trying to sell you something is being fair or not and as for the prices you are all so worried about i dont understand the dilemma… ın macys or ikea people are paying thousands for machine made pieces of plastic that take less than an hour to be made but when it comes to handmade pieces of art that take months or years of work people are so worried they are going to get ripped off a measly 500dollars … its absurd.However much you spend in Turkey on rugs do know this a rug that is handmade will always be worth something and depending on the material will/can make you a small fortune in years to come
Wheither the carpet you purchase is egyptian. turkish or iranian … silk cotton wool or mercerised cotton isnt the important thing that you have a nice memory of your travels that suits your home and lifestyle?
for the people who come to Turkey and purchase carpets from our country İ would like to say thankyou on behalf of all the carpet dealers.. you are helping us to spread our culture throughout the world….
Thank you for all the sage advice. I am traveling to Turkey in 2 weeks and hope to find a wool carpet for my son and daughter-in-law. I own several turkish rugs and HOPE i can get a fair deal.
I enjoyed reading ALL the comments.
We will have a Turkish guide so hoping he will be helpful/honest.
I have recently visisted Turkey very beutiful country but people spcially the vendors are not very nice. They are looking for every opportunity to deceive you. My experience was terible starting from currency exchange store, food store to a reputed carpet store (MATIS) in grandbazaar. You could not even trust your tour guide as we were led to the carpet store (MATIS) at grand bazaar by our tour guide without our knowledge and once you are in you are trapped into the claws of the carpet salesmen. All people do is try to look for opportunity to deceive you so be vary careful if you are planning to visit Turkey soon.
Puhleez~This is an informational blog, not a free appraisal service. The number of posters looking for free services from the blogger is embarassing to responsible internet users everywhere. If you want an appraisal go pay for one. If you need help buying a rug don’t expect a dealer to advise you without being able to see the thing. Duh! If it sounds too good to be true it probably IS. If it sounds too expensive it probably IS. Thanks for the hours of work this site represents. You’re much nicer than most of these free loaders deserve.
Thank You Elizabeth. I answer about 100 emails a week and rarely receive even a thanks.
We bought a silk on silk Hereke rug from Gordes in Istanbul in late August. We paid $10k for it and just had an appraisal done only to find out , while it is silk on silk, it’s only worth $7660. I’m upset since the cost in Lira listed on the rug was 35,000 much more than $10k based on the current exchange rate. It’s a great rug, but I can not insure it for what I paid for it. I was also taken here by a tour guide and felt like I was trapped and there were a lot of cruise groups being brought in as well. Has anyone had any experience with filing a compliant on an international transaction like this. I went to Gordes website today and they have either pulled it or it’s down becuase it’s not the comprehensive site that I saw a few weeks ago.
Jennifer I understand your dismay at having paid more for your rug than it can be appraised for. But if you loved it when you bought it, why not consider it money well spent for an item you’ll hopefully enjoy for years to come? As for filing a complaint, what do you expect to accomplish? Tourists want to buy rugs and vendors in these countries want your $$$. Getting the best possible price for their rugs sounds to be an accepted part of the culture if the above posts are any indication. Elevating your blood pressure trying to change the Turkish rug industry is more apt to hurt you than the rug company.
If you want real excitement try shopping the under <$50 hand knotted rugs on EBay. My “new excellent condition” 3X5 rug for $25 also has a foot long badly repaired vertical slit through the foundation. But it’s wool, and warm, I knew I was being “had” so my pride is intact, and it’s a gorgeous foot warmer for the end of my bed. Smile.
Elizabeth
You are incredibly insensitive to tell Jennifer it is money well spent. This lady was ripped off or overcharged $2360 dollars over the appraised value on a carpet.
My entire trip to turkey and europe including holland and germany for one month cost me $2200 and I bough a nice carpet, kilem and a silk on wool.
That included airfare, souvenirs, and food and entertainment.
Jennifer, file your complaints if it makes you fell better. $2360 is a lot of money.
I’m sorry you feel that way. And yes you are correct that if focusing time, hate and negative energy filing a complaint makes her feel better it will no doubt be therapeutic. Will it get her a refund? Will it make her rug worth more? Will it change the buyer beware overseas carpet industry? If you can help her find the website that’s been taken down please do so. I tried but the Google link I found no longer works.
Hi Elizabeth and Jim,
I appreciate both of your points of view. I didn’t think Elizabeth’s comment was insensitive, simply realistic. But Jim, you feel my pain!
I like the rug, I won’t say that I will ever be able to look at it now and say I love it - I feel burned by it.
I guess my point in filing a complaint - maybe through my credit card company - is simply to prevent someone else from being taken in by this particular company. It was like the Tiffany’s of Istanbul - 5 stories of luxury items in a posche setting with tea served to you in a beautfiul room while gorgeous carpets are laid out in front of you to walk across in your barefeet so you can experience the luxury first hand (or foot)! I had no reason to doubt that it would not appraise for at least the value I paid. I think there is a video on you tube of a carpet viewing at Gordes even. What makes me feel bad is all the groups of tourists that were being marched through that very establishment like herds of cattle….all feeling like I did, a (false) sense of honesty /integrity from a company that turned out not to be.
Sigh…but it is a beautiful rug.
04.26.11 James Hamilton
finally a good ending…. My father had to travel back to the bazarre 18 months later to see Mezat rug at the Grand Bazaar !!! How happy they were to see my father (and I am sure shocked)! Hopefully now another rug is on it’s way to Australia. But my 83 year young father had to return to the store to get what belonged to him. They at this store should be totally ashamed and disgusted with themselves with their scammed behaviour ! $8,000 Aud was nearly lost and now hopefuly all is resolved. Please all be aware !
I am a Turkish collector of antique rugs living in Istanbul. Silk is not interesting for me, so I do not go to shops where this is a specialty. However, in my experience if the rug dealer is willing to bargain with you you can count on that you are bring cheated. The kinds of shops used by locals and serious collectors will not be giving a %50 discount even to the best customer. I will not trust somewhere who gives me such unrealistic price and discount. In a long time I have not bought the new rugs, so maybe market in these can be different, but for antique rugs if they promise an incredible price, it is not true.
Thank you for the valuable information.
I treated myself to a purchase of a very small, 54cm x 39cm, ~13×13 = 169 per sqcmvery expensive silk on silk carpet from Ladik Halicilik Kuy. They promised November delivery (shipping and handling is included in the price, not free!!)I received the correct item three weeks after purchase.
It is a Ozipek Ince, name integrated and knotted on top border.
I boughht it as a piece of art. the pattern is “der traurige Herbst= the somber autumn”. I probably paid too much. I did not get a written first quote, which I believe was around Euro 14000. There was another slightly larger piece for 18000 and an even larger one for 36000 Euro. I paid around 10000 Euro which I now believe is probably too much. However as I like this piece of art, wether it is the real thing or not. My problem is with hanging it on the wall. It has a red Ribben sewed on, however after inserting a wooden rod and hanging it up, the fringes naturally slope down. I consider framing it and need advice on how to proceed. The fringes would still bend down, unless there is a way to fix them. I am very reluctant to stick anything on them as not to damage the piece. For any advice I would be most grateful.
Keep up the good work, I might not have bought had I researched before I departed for my fabulous Bus Tour. Turkey is a great country.
PS Jewellery buying is another sore point in Turkey. Pressure and hype is very high. Ring looked great on my pinky, however after it was enlarged it did not fit and slides off my fingers
Again much too expensive in comparison with local products.
Again, thanks and best regards
Marlies
9/10/2011 Bought a rug in Matis shop outside the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul on 17/3/2011. Agreed that they would deliever it first week of June 2011 when I am back in UK.
Whilst on board ship I realised the measurements were incorrect to what I had specified and the US Dollar ($) had been changed to a pound(£)sign. Tried to contact them to cancel the order to no avail due to network problems.
Upon arrival in UK I emailed them and followed the customer policy as per their receipt and there were no response. Instead of them delivering the rug first week of June as agreed an attempt to deliver was made in May and I was not UK receive it. Delivery people refused to deliver at alternate address. Upon my return the rug was being returned back to Turkey. Telephoned the number on the card and was informed that it was in Holland on route to Turkey. I have emailed Matis and wrote to the company, seeking confirmation from them if they have received the rug, after searching numerous websites for a full official buisness address (I hoped) and so far no response. Spoke with my credit company and they seem unhelpful.
Having read the other comments above is there hope for me either being reimbursed the monies of purchase now owed, as I do not have the rug and am paying off the credit card? By the way the purchase turned out to be £1,900:00 for a 5′x 7′ rug size.
I would appreciate suggestions of next level as I have written and am in contact with Trading Standards.
Thank you.
13/10/11 - Just returned from Turkey
Buying carpets is a fun activity but has lots of risk. Find out as much as you can before buying. That is fun in itself as the dealers all spin there very clever sales stories.
We discovered lots of tricks - including acid washing new carpets - which is common - makes them look aged. Found out scammers and trusted few, - A good thing to lnow is to check the back colour and top colour - if its aged naturally the colours will be brightest on the underside - no sun light - if its the same shade its not old. Still we brought some and enjoyed the experiance
We were in Istanbul for a holiday. My husband and I had no intention whatsoever of buying a rug. But as we were waiting for someone in party, we entered the Mezat Rug store in the Grand Bazaar. What a mistake. Ali and his daughter scammed us into buying two rugs, with the false information. We had to pay the tax and they would take the expensive carpet back from us for the full refund and we get to keep the second one for free. I guess we were gullible or maybe even stupid to believe such lies. I would warn TO STAY AWAY FROM MEZAT RUGS STORE, unless you are ready to be taken in.
So sad that for money people lose their conciense and ethics.
Also stay away from “Elegance Rugs” Istanbul - Found that they had Acid washed a new rug and called it 80 years old - high pressure sales - When you put the pressure on they back away and act offened to avoid the enivitable discovery - These people are very clever and use all the mind taping and heart tugging tricks that they have learnt over many many years - again as per above comments if it is offered as a unbelievable bargin it probebly isnt! If they are antique and as good a deal as they say - other dealers would buy them quickly. If you liked it, it wouldnt matter if the price was realstic - as they will still be good rugs but they are presented and priced as something else.
The traders are not all bad - just its hard to tell sometimes - so do your homework !
am currently in istanbul, and am eyeing off a few wool rugs from sisko osman at the grand bazaar. Wondering if anyone has some feedback about this dealer??
Thanks in advance!
I hear he is reputable. His name is in all the guidebooks. Not sure though.!
hi,
first of all i am Turk and living in Turkey. After living about 7 yrs at east reagion of Turkey ( due to governmental work) we moved west with a single Kilim from where we bought. so later our friends saw our Kilim and they wanted also, where our story starts. So my wife started to contact dealer at east and south east region ( mean time almost %100 of the carpet dealer were Kurdish). and I know majorty of the Carpet seller in Istanbul is Kurds. So, we brought about 12 Kilim, and they were easly bought by friends and neighbours. The reason we ve just keept one kilim, and gave the price to other 11 kilim, so we were collecting kilim and fr,ends were getting cheap kilim also. Initially no body wasked or cleaned kilim, until one our friend washed, and it turned out that is smearing colors. So w e switched our seller who lied us about dying. Finally my wife deals with some arabic oriented guy from South east (from K Maras)so honest he never bugs us about repayment, divides whole payments, so easy and honest person. we enjoy bussines with him also. so, i am kind of snical about who has carpet show in home town and talking about Turkish bussines and seller. so kind of they say they sell %100 non problematic rug or kilim. since, no body knows exaxtly that actually woven person used what kind of material while making rugor carpet. The quality of fiber also varies. so seller also belives that person. If weaver lies, so seller would be misinformed also. So, who we will belive, who sells fibers to weavers? unless weaver produce his/her own hand made fiber, and him/heerself dyes, then no problem. Bu no one produce hand made fibers( especially wool ones). so, most of fiber produsers also like Chine, Germany, Eygpy, Turkey etc, teh seller at those country also have some sort of blame. If they sell easly fast dyed fibers, they say flos as silk fiber, how should weaver ( mostly not educated, not even read or write), and not educated dealer ( can hardly read and write most), and sure the character of that person also is important.
Any way, as most say, never give up enjoying Kilim, you can sure identify wool! so buy wool rugs and carpets, and enjoy the color and design which you can not find at home. Never thing that other sellers and bussines peoplein Turkey are also dishonest as some might have . Turism sector in Turkey unfortunately dominated with Kurds, perhaps they deliver cheap labor, or perhaps they like to live in those region and due to all sorts of serving sectors. so they dont wholly represent whole country. with my respects
let me share one of my kilim experience, i am driving west of Turkey, we saw tribal towm put all rugs lied on sun. It is like open carpet museum, we stopped and asked why they laid all carpets, and answers was simple TO AGITATE, to make them look like old, theye were using sunshine to disclorized. So, there are many trics on old rugs and carpets as far as amaetor i can say. So why buy old carpet? unless you are really expert on rug/ kilim so. If you are regular user, go buy new one naturally dyed Kilim/ carpets. Make sure you enjoy pattern, color matches your upsholdry( chair, curtain, floor etc) so, my personal enjoy is SiNE KiLiM, which has both side has same pattern and You can use those Kilim’s both side, hard to see joining knots, though some may not enjoy pattern on those, so repetetive patters they carry. But it is hard to find, if it suits your joy, ask for “Sine” or “sinem” Kilim. Be advized that blac, blue and red is mainly root dye colors, so adverse colors ( pink, sky blue etc) may indicate it is not root dye, but it is not necessarly mean dye has problem.
30/10/2011
I wrote on the 9/10/2011 regarding the rug I bought which I had not received then and still paying for it. Just to say I have received it and is the correct size which is 10feet by 7feet. I am still negotiating the price.
Thank you all for your informative information. I have learnt a lot and am wiser.
I bought a rug at Gordes, Istanbul in July, very funny experience stuck in a room with 3 sales persons! It is cotton on wool I look at it every day and love it! They wanted $5300 I paid $3600. Not sure if I was ripped off or not, don’t care I love it!
My husband and I bought a 6 x 9 wool rug at the Collective in Kusadasi. I paid 1650.00 and was wondering if anyone has heard anything about this place. we had a private tour guide who took us there and I’m hoping he was honest. The rug has a pretty pattern that was referred to as one of the palatial designs. It is wool with a sort of embroidered finish on the top. Anyone know this place or can help me out? Thanks!
We bought a handmade carpet from Galata Quality for $2,400 USD and it arrived in Canada without any additional fees or charges.
We certainly over paid…
However, overpayment was not the worst aspect of our purchase. Galata Quality used a “bait and switch” tactic on us
The carpet we received was of the same pattern, and was hand-made, but was also a cheaper version of what we had actually intended to purchase.
I would highly recommend that people avoid buying carpets in Turkey (they cannot be returned because of Turkish import/export laws), but rather, buy them from a reputable retailer in their own country, or a country that provides a return / refund policy. GALATA QUALITY is not a reputable retailer, in our experience!
It would have been far wiser for us to purchase our carpet in Canada, and it would have cost us much less too
Oh well, live and learn
Just returned from Istanbul. Does anyone have experience with Aladdin Carpet Shop in the Hilton Istanbul? I saw some beauties there. All seemed overpriced but when I go back in a few months I may try to bargain with them. Are they truth-tellers regarding their merchandise?
While I was there this time, I bought a wonderful Kayseri floral, wool-on-cotton, 6 sq m (200 x 300), for $1200 from Gallery Ottoman, probably about 50 years old, very good to excellent condition. I liked their small shop and regular guys hanging out with the owner, who was not pushy. I can’t believe it looks even more beautiful at home than in the shop!
We were 6 japanese people when we went to Cappadocia and nobody knew about carpets.One of my friends bought a sumak for 1100 US dollars and later we found similar one,same size,for 300 US dollars in another shop!!!My friend was so upset!And you know,the dealer said that he makes the same price that he has bought for!
I heard from a turkish woman in cappadocia,that carpet dealers there,have different tricks:they invite you for dinner or even drinking a cup of apple tea and then they try to sell you something!They say that they have to pay to workers or a bank and they need money so they’re selling cheap(just a lie).and ….Be careful please!
Also,I don’t remember the name of the shop that my friend bought,but it was close to a mosque in Goreme (Cappadocia) and a huge carpet shop!
I hope you will find an honest dealer!
I was just in ABC carpets in New York City Yesterday and saw a Yahyali carpet that was 3X6 feet. The Price was $1999. The knots were not tight at all very loose and big. I asked them what is the lowest price they would take cash and they said 1800 plus tax of 8.75%. That would put the rug well over $1900 dollars.
I purchase a Yahyali carpet in February 2002 of the same design with very tight knots and is 3.5X7 feet for $275 in Urgup Turkey. The salesman said the price of buying turkish carpets has skyrocketed and that is why it is so expensive.
My advice to all carpet shoppers. If you think you are going to get a bargain at ABC Carpets in New York, one of the largest carpet shops in the world, think again. The prices are very very expensive and they will only go down 10% but then add the 8.75% tax. d\
If my mom would read all the articles posted, she should just have fun on the flying carpet demons in Gordes carpet store in Istanbul when she took the Cunard Line cruise trip in 2011. She got robbed by paying more than $10,000 on a so called silk carpet and received a different one at home in US. We can only pray for her accepting the deal. Any good suggestions for her.