Oriental Rugs Today: Chapter 4 Part 4
Of all the rug-weaving countries in the world, Turkey may be the most fun for travelers looking to buy. Rugs and carpets have been made there for centuries, so travelers find rugs of all ages in the Turkish bazaars and a huge assortment of them from thousands of villages. Many Turkish rugs are great-looking, too. Often they have a genuine tribal character, rarely looking stamped-out or stiff. Futhermore, Turkish rug merchants are engaging people who can make the whole process of buying a rug fun, and they are perfectly capable of shipping rugs internationally.
Given these attractions, travelers often buy rugs abroad that they wouldn’t have bought had they had an opportunity to try a rug at home on an approval basis. Travelers get caught up in the local aesthetic and admire rugs in Turkey, for instance, that don’t look so good to them at home. Of course that is not the fault of Turkish merchants.
But there is a more sinister side to the story. Nearly all the folks who show us rugs they have brought back from Turkey have been lied to by Turkish merchants in some respect. Most have been given an exaggerated notion of a rug’s age. Very often they have been told that a rug was woven with natural dyes when, in fact, it was not. Lately we have seen a number of cases in which Turkish rug dealers have sold tourists cheap rugs from other countries and passed them off as Turkish. Also common is the fake silk scam (see below).
Worst of all, sometimes people are sold rugs in Turkey for far more than they are worth — sometimes thousands of dollars more — and usually a buyer in that case has little recourse.
Most often, though, travelers buy nice rugs in Turkey for a third less than they would pay in the United States. They have been lied to about age and so on, but because the experience was fun, they tend to forgive.
Our advice? Buy rugs in Turkey and elsewhere abroad just as you would gamble. That is, have fun — but don’t bet more than you can afford to lose.
American tourists often return from Turkey with Kaiseri rugs made in central Anatolia. Local rug merchants represent them as silk rugs. In fact, they are made with mercerized cotton, a poor imitation. I have examined pile fibers from many Kaiseris in microscopes without finding one that is really silk. Those who have purchased ’silk’ Kaiseris in Turkey, still in denial after hearing the bad news, sometimes produce receipts from Turkey that read, ‘Made from 100% pure art silk.’ Art silk? ‘Art’ turns out to be an abbreviation for ‘artificial’ (without the period). That is a refinement on the older version: 20 years ago, Kaiseri dealers told people they were made from ‘Turkish silk’, a euphemism for cotton. Before that it was called ‘German silk’. Having noted that, I should add that I have seen Kaiseris I like, cotton pile notwithstanding. Kaiseri weavers also make rugs with wool pile on a cotton foundation, though these are rarely imported into the U.S.
Elsewhere I have cautioned that Chinese and even Egyptian silk rugs are sometimes imported into Turkey and sold as Herekes, but I am hard pressed to tell you how you can be certain that you are buying a real one. I have read that all Herekes are Persian-knotted, and I have read that all but a very few are Turkish-knotted. The confusion is understandable: one must be blessed with extraordinary vision to even see knots this small. In my experience, most new Herekes are Turkish-knotted, and you can rest assured that a very fine, new, silk rug that is Turkish-knotted is neither a Chinese nor an Egyptian copy, since both kinds are Persian-knotted. Inscriptions (in Arabic script) are often woven into Herekes to identify them, but there are exceptions. Some Herekes are both very fine and uninscribed, so an inscription or lack of one is not a reliable guide to authenticity.
So how do you identify an honest rug dealer? I’m visiting Istanbul and expect hordes of dealers..how do you cull the list?
I’m sorry to say that it is quite impossible without word-of-mouth to know which dealers are “honest,” and even then you may get had. Our advice is to buy abroad only for the experience of it. Set a price you are willing to spend for a piece that may or not be what the merchant tells you it is. Buy the piece for the fun of it. Try online blogs which may give you clues to what others have seen and experienced. Remember that textiles purchased in other countries will look very different than they do here, given the geographic location. Good luck!
I live in Turkey. We have bought rugs both new and old from several different dealers in different cities. If you are a collector or very, very savvy about rugs, you can go to the rug dealers in New York and sometimes buy a fine rug or kilim cheaper than you will buy it here, but that requires a high level of expertise.
For the average buyer, I suggest you buy the Hali Rug Guide that has a list of suggested sellers in Istanbul. This guide is published by Hali, the foremost rug publication in the world. The Guide was published in 1997 but the suggested price of $300 / square meter for new production is still valid, in fact, it is possible to get new production as low as $200 / square meters as rug dealers are hurting. No buyers.
There is also a newer publication by Anthony Hazeldine, but it can only be ordered online through Hali (www.hali.com) and is quite expensive ($33).
Thanks, Carole! While we’ve seen plenty of shoppers burned in Istanbul, that doesn’t mean there aren’t deals to be had. And it’s not like people don’t get overcharged in this country.
For those of you considering buying rugs in Turkey, an authoritative guidebook would certainly be a sound investment. Here are more details about the books Carole mentioned:
Istanbul: The Hali Rug Guide $30 at Amazon, $14 at the Hali bookshop.
Turkey: The Rug Guide $42 Amazon, $33 Hali.
The Hali Bookshop prices include shipping, but to order the books you’ll need to print an order form and send it in. I imagine folks in a hurry will spring for the price-inflated but more convenient Amazon marketplace option.
i am in selcuk near kusadasi and have been floating between a few merchants i have eyed off a silk kaiseri and the dealer wants a price of 1300 u.s. is this a fair price in your opinon as it is not aged and the design is of the tree of life,
please advise.
one more point the carpet is the size of a prayer carpet i hope this helps you further
i stumbled upon this blog while searching for books on oriental carpets, and that led here. while i am no expert on rug buying in turkey, i’m not a novice either, and so can offer the following tips:
1. have knowledge, REAL knowledge, before you even attempt to buy, or even walk into a shop. once you demonstrate that you are not the average tourist, you won’t be treated like one. remember, these guys see a lot of dopes.
2. instead of bragging about what knowledge you have, or awkwardly trying to demonstrate it, try asking for the unusual. my personal request was for bags &etc. from fetiyhe area—this simple request raised a lot of eyebrows, and got me shown a boatload of very cool and affordable stuff [all bags, of course]. it immediately separated me from the herd, and also in one instance got me into the warehouse of one of the arasta bazaar dealers, where i was shown some astounding stuff—absolute museum pieces—and with certain knowledge i wouldn’t be able to buy. they were just tickled to show someone the REALLY good stuff.
3. in istanbul, i liked what i saw in the arasta bazaar best. selcuk has several dealers with good stuff, and we bought about $4Kusd from one. bergama also has several interesting dealers, as does kas [oddly enough—it’s quite a tourist trap otherwise]. all of these guys had junk, too. so, again, one needs to separate from the pack.
4. the best anatolian things from the best dealers will not be had at a bargain, and there will be little to no haggling. what are more negotiable are terms. anatolian stuff is pricey, now.
5. bargain hunters should look for non-anatolian [classic] stuff, especially kurdish and uzbek stuff [the uzbek things will mostly be non-rug, non-pile, but really terrific]. the dealers get this stuff from the east. not turkish, but some good deals [although we are finding some terrific stuff on ebay, already in the states]. the exceptions i know of for anatolian wares would be bags and new bergama carpets. the bags may be semi antique and older. the bergama carpets are made in great quantities it seems, and everyone has a few. look at a lot of them and you will soon see which are the ones to buy. they are new, but very serviceable, everyday carpets that are “honest” for the most part.
Some of that I agree with, Some I don’t. I don’t think you need to become that informed if you stick to a price you want to spend and buy what you like. The experience will be just as fun. Why not be the typical tourist? If you are a budding collector and are looking for something in particular then Tex is right, become informed.
Hi,
nice site. About the silk herekes: Most rugs sold as Herekes in turkey are chinese or egyptan reproductions (copies). And you are right about their (persian)knots. But the best copies (as always) come from china. Zhenping is one of the leading producers of double (turkish) knot silk rugs in hereke design. And turkey is the main export destination for Zhenping products. I know many rug dealers, who can not recognise these rugs as copies. I am a rug dealer in Germany, and we have the same problems with tourist bringing rugs to our shop they bought in turkey. I recommend to all buyers: Enjoy the trip to any oriental rug producing country. Spend a little money for a nice piece of oriental art. But if you seriously think of buying a good, valuable rug - better buy it at a well reputated dealer near your home.
I’m with you Ahmad.
I am in instanbul. is there any way a circa 1910 10×12ish caucasian soumak, very pretty, minor repairs, should cost $12,000?
Sure. Turn of the century piece with nice colors and an interesting design. could even be more if it’s the right piece. The question you have to ask yourself is… Is it the right piece? Carpet dealers have a bad reputation for a pretty good reason. my advice is buy what you like at a price you can afford discounting everything the carpet dealer is telling you.
You could send me a picture too. Best of luck Benjamin.
i am going to turkey very soon.whats are the things i should look for before i buy a rug or a carpet?how do i know its not fake?
Hi, I am in Istanbul. Saw this silk on silk carpet, about 80cmx50cm for USD740, 8×7 knots per square metre. The design is tree of life. I am not sure whether it’s a good price or am I being conned. The shop keeper said it’s made in Iznik and he did honestly tell me that it’s a chemical dye rather than natural dye.
the rug is from kayseri silk because there is no protucsion in iznic izmit could be but that mean hereke
it should be 10bye10 ,not 7bye8 it should be kayseri pricing is not possible without seing the rug also change dpend whom you deal
good luck
Hi, thanks for the reply. I bought the carpet. You are right, it’s made in Kayseri but the silk is produced in Brussa area according to the seller. He made me a final offer of USD430 which I thought is a good price. It’s 9×9 knots. I was wrong before, was very confused with all the numbers. It has been a very stressful experience, but I think the more shops we went to, the more we learnt about the carpets and the pricing. So, I think for anyone hoping to buy a carpet here, don’t rush, go to as many shops as you need to until you feel comfortable with the price. Also, don’t be pressured by the sellers, as a lot of them tend to turn very pushy after about an hour, trying to force you to buy something, it seems like a common tactic!
Bought a prayer rug at Matis in Kusadasi. 3′ x 5′ (1m x 1.4m) x ~3-4mm thick. Supposedly silk on silk with 625 kpsi. Looks all correct but is there a simple way to tell modified cotton from real silk? I do have a friend who speaks Farsi and Arabic and found it strange to see a possible Persian signature on the rug. Any thoughts?
Thank you all.
Josh-
Light your rug on fire- if it lights right up, it’s cotton, but if it “smolders” then it’s the real deal.
You’re welcome.
I’ve just returned from Istanbul, and I’ve got humped with a fake silk carpet. I did the burn test on the ends of the carpet, which seem to be real silk. After I returned home, and reading up the information about fake silk, I found out that mine is definitely fake. Damn it!
But anyway, the carpet looks nice, even though it’s not what it’s supposed to be! Should have read more, before I bought.
is it safer and simpler to stick to wool carpets
Purchasıng a rug ın Istanbul was an awesome experıence ,we bought a 9.2×12.5 oushak for $7.000- plus shıppıng fees..´
Sımılar rug ın medallıon rug store(palo alto,ca) was around 15,000- and ın mr smıths gallery was $12,500 ,my husband studıed rugs for many years,I purchased rugs ın u.s as well and my experıences told me buyıng a rug ın us ıs expensıve and ınsane .
Michelle,
I think the opposite is true for the layperson. It is my experience that people who buy rugs abroad often pay too much and are often sold carpets that are other than what is represented. I advise people to set a price before entering a carpet store abroad and sticking to that price. Buy what you like not because of what you are being told it is, but because you truly love it. Many carpet stores here in the states will negotiate on listed prices. These list prices may be double what you can actually buy the carpet for.
My parents went on a cruise to Istanbul. The cruise ship inventoried rugs bought by tourists as the tourist returned to the boat. Cruise ship collected their receipts so that they could get their “kick-back” from the rug dealer. here’s some advice, don’t go anywhere a cruise ship tells you to go for shopping. Everyone is in the tourism game for MONEY. Get off the beat and ask where to locals shop.
Hi my mom is currently in Istabul purchasing a rug made of camel hair. It is 4 x7 and is being offered to her at a price of about $440. Do you think this is a right amount to pay?
I am having a terrible timetrying to figure out what kind of rug I have Ivey-Selkirk wants to come look at it and that is after they have seen tons of very good pics. They are saying the market is not good right now, and I am afraid they are all ready preparing to rip me off! I have a label on the back of mine and I cannot figure out what country it is from and I believe this rug has already been catalouged. I have repeatedly asked them and they avoid the question can anyone help, I will send pics!
but I can only send pics through my email!
Hi
I am a rug dealer in Pittsburgh PA. I find it distriburing that so many people think that they will get a better deal in a Foreign country on rugs. Nothing is farther from the truth. Every rug in my store is hand selected by me for quality. The customer has an opportunity to take the rug home and see it in their light and for size. And most importantly, if there is a problem or dispute they can bring it back. I can’t tell you how many times I had to tell people that they threw away thousands of dollars by buying abroad. They are looking at rugs that cannot be sold in reputable stores in USA.
Yikes, is it true that there are government run stores in Turkey where the certificates of authenticty mean the rugs really are real even though the prices aren’t great? I hope so because I just bought a rug from one of these places in the Cappadocia/Kayseri area!
Many are are con-artists. hence, they build your CONfidence to trick and scam ignorant americans. The key is to educate yourself in all aspects of rugs before being lured into a time scam type of sales pitch. The more educated you are, the more difficult and dangerous you become to some of those scammers in Turkey. Ask tons of questions and look/analyze their response. then leave the store, to decipher what they said and verify info with an independent expert–you are spending thousands and do not want to buy something really much less. We would go to the local college in states before going to turkey and get advice on what to look for, what not to look for, and the tons of con-artistry that is prevalent in turkey.
Cruise ship “director” collecting receipts from the rug dealers for the kick-back. hah. That is not surprising. Many “tour” operators are there to help you part with your hard-earned monies. do NOT fall for it; most are fraudulent. These conartists (CONfidence-man, CONman) have honed their BS-ing skills for years and know how to act according to human behavior and dealing with uninformed, ignorant, or misinformed americans. shop where the locals shop, and ask loads of questions. do NOT fall for the overrpriced eateries, and the rip-off $3.00 soda cans.?!?! As in any country, do NOT shop in touristy areas; they are inhabited mostly by tourists in large caravans/buses who do not mind blowing tons of money on junk knick-knacks or severely overpaying on memento junk. Hold onto your wallet–travelling can leave you destitute if you are not savvy.
I have been reading some of these messages above and
very shocked with the comments have been made about the
rug business in Turkey ..also amazed with another fact
that how little people know about the rugs and the rug
dealers .. let me give you a piece of advice , from what
you are all focusing above , we need to finish MIT
SCHOOL of TECHNOLOGY just to buy a little cell phone
for your self ..there are rug dealers in the U.S.A
who have been going out of business in the last 30 years
but still trying to sell new persian rugs (they say
they are persian rugs)which no persian goods are allowed
to the U.S.A ,as an U.S. ambargo ..so if a turkish rug
dealer is a liar, no others are better then the turkish
ones ..and plus in TURKEY you know that you are getting
at least a real handmade rug which is the most important truth anyway ..
I wish all travellers have fun shopping for rugs in
Turkey ….
oscar
This has been very helpful information. I am leaving for Istanbul at the end of the week and have learned that many of the rugs that are being represented as Turkish are actually Indian reproductions of Turkish or Persian rugs. Very difficult to determine if authentic. The tightness and closeness of the knots which can be seen on the underside of the rug is one of the most important things to look at as well using a damp cloth to determine if it is natural dye. But at the end of the day, can you really tell whether the rug is authentic or not? I was also told that the girls who used to make the rugs in the rural areas, really don’t want to do it anymore and are becoming more educated and interested in other things. That may have been said as a ploy to raise the price of Turkish rugs and to make them more in demand. Are persian rugs finer in quality than Turkish? Thanks for your responses.
Oscar,
Let me first say that we here at Emmett Eiland’s, know many fair and honest Turkish rug dealers. We in no way want to appear to be casting aspersions on Turkish carpet dealers in general. That being said, many of the carpets that we see here in our store purchased abroad in Turkey are not what they were purported to be by the carpet dealer. I think the number is high because Turkey is really the only easily visited carpet producing country. It is also true that there are dishonest carpet dealers in every country. Unfortunately carpet dealers have a bad reputation for a very good reason.
As to Persian rugs in the U.S., I am happy to inform you that the embargo ended about nine years ago as President Clinton left office. Just to emphasize that point, here it is again THE EMBARGO HAS BEEN OVER FOR 9 YEARS.
As to your last point I hardly know how to respond. A dishonest rug dealer in any country is unacceptable. There is no lesser of any two lies. A lie is a lie.
I encourage people to buy rugs abroad and especially in Turkey. My guidelines are as follows.
1.Buy what you like because you like it, not because of what someone is telling you it is.
2. Spend no more than you can afford. If the carpet is too much money walk away. It is our job as carpet dealers to show rugs. Don’t be made to feel guilty for the amount of work it takes to do that.
3.There is no way for a layman to distinguish a natural dye from a synthetic one. We can all be fooled.
4. Carpets DO NOT make good investments in general.
Ellen,
I have seen many rugs purchased in Turkey as Turkish, turn out to be from somewhere else. It’s impossible for a laymen to tell the difference. Knot count is not a defining criteria for quality. I would take many village carpets over most city carpets any day. As stated above there is no way for you to tell definitively if a carpet is naturally dyed. A damp cloth will not work and should not be trusted as an example.
As to Persian versus Turkish rugs, there are good and bad from both country.
It is true that due to globalization there are fewer women willing to weave. I fear for the art in all rug producing countries.
Please refer to the guidelines in the last post for my recommendations on buying rugs abroad.
Hey, don’t knock buying carpets from dealers recommended by the cruise lines. While it is most likely true that they do get a kick-back, cruise line companies like Princess offer a guarantee that the merchandise you purchase from one of their recommended stores is authentic or you get your money back. Just a little FYI.
I have recently visited Istanbul and spent days looking at carpets all over the city. Most dealers inflate the prices dramatically. On average, the price being quoted initially is 6-10 times the market price. Of course, if you only shop in Istanbul, your idea of usual and customary “market price” will be severely skewed upward. I have also found that the dealers will misrepresent the source and “value” of the rugs to make a sale. Finally, the tour operators, the cruise ships, and the entire tourist industry is concentrated on fooling American, Japanese, and Arab tourists into overpaying for rugs and other “local” handicrafts.
I agree with Eiland’s guidelines. In my opinion, buy in the US, but maybe pick up a small “fun” rug in Istanbul for the experience of chatting it up with the rug merchants.
Richard ,
I could not agree more , perfect four rules to a
good rug buying experience ..thank you also for a
very valuable information about embargo ending
finally ..
but , there are two important facts when it comes
to handmade rug business ,the Turkish rugs and the
Persian rugs ..they are always the best in the world..
thank you for your kind respond ..
best wishes
oscar
I recently visited a very expensive shop in a three story building in the old city of Istanbul. It was not in the bazaar, but on the luxury shopping street. The rugs were new, the designs were original to the shop. They ran $130,000 for a 10′ x ‘12 silk with about 375 knots psi. The rug had “Dirsin” or Nirsin,” I couldn’t make out the name exactly, woven into one edge of the rug. Does anyone know the name of this shop?
I’ve just been delivered a lovely 5 x 7 rug I purchased aa few weeks ago at the Galata Jewel rug co-operative (somewhere between Kusadasi and Ephesus, Turkey). I agree with other writers that visiting rug merchantss, and then buying without having done a lot of previous research, was “quite the experience - a bit emotional and daunting at times”. But, frankly, doing it will forever resonate with me as a very interesting rememberance of this fascinating country.
As for the Galata folks, I live in Canada so my friedss and I had our rugs shipped. The delivery promise was within 6-8 weeks but it took just a little over 3 weeks. Yes, Galata was recommended by Princess Cruise Lines in their written materials to passengers, but neither Princess nor Galata had any way to know that we were with the cruise ship as we arrived there independent of Princess. Nor was there any of the collecting of receipts, etc. that some writers mention So I suggest folks take suggestions that Princess is taking “kickbacks”with a grain of salt. Anyway, who cares, if you buy something you love for what you feel is a fair price, and it is delivered in a fair and honest way, and Princess stands behind it - what’s to really complain about?
As background, Galata promised to deliver our rugs for the prices negotiated on-site with no extra charges for shipping, duty, or taxes to the buyers. I must admit that I and my carpet-buying friends were a tad nervous about whether this would really “come to pass” and didn’t feel at ease until our rugs arrived. However, this co-operative was true to its word about all these aspects. There were no extra charges, and our rugs arrived early, better than promised, and in perfect condition.
In addition, Galata provided us each a Certificate of Authenticity for our rugs - as a member of the Turkish Carpet Weavers Association. In those, they guaranteed that our pieces were 100% handmade - they did not say where the pieces originated (but that was not really an issue for us). They also detailed the kind (genre) of rugs we’d bought, the materials, the size, along with a serial number. These certificates were signed by 3 different people.
I love my carpet, and it came home reliably just as promised. I’m not sure if I negotiated the price as well as I might have, but that doesn’t matter as it’s lovely and whatever I paid supported the weaving artist to some extent. My question is whether the merchants that supply these seemingly “legal” authentications are a hoax or are they part of a Turkish government arrangement that keeps some of the vendors “honest” in order to protect an important local industry? If there are these more “legitimate” sources, it could be helpful to your readers to know about this. On the other hand, if I was “taken in” by the fancy paperwork, well I was “had” but still have a nice rug, a lovely cuppa tea and a good memory.
I bought mine in Cappadocia and have a written guarantee that should I ever want to return it (even in 10 years) I am welcome to do so. Email me for details at illini88@hotmail.com. I paid 2900 USD for a 6.5′ x 9.52′. My tour guide assured me one in season much like it sold for 4000 USD.
Matis is the name of the luxury shop in Istanbul near the Bazaar.
I brought a rug in Adana, Turkey around 1980-81 it is handmade and it a pictorial focused on a bridge and Mosque in Istanbul. Vivid blue and other colors. I was told something about this “rooster like character” on the edge means high quality. Any ideas on the character?
I own a Turkish Kayseri Silk rug measuring 18 X 12 and would like to trade it for a smaller size of the same rug perhaps a 10 X 14 or so. s that possible? It is a beautiful black, burgundy, pale blue with medallion.